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A word on BD - Bike Direct .com
[版面:自行车运动][首篇作者:binladen] , 2012年08月02日10:37:23 ,5681次阅读,39次回复
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binladen
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发信人: binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo), 信区: Cycling
标  题: A word on BD - Bike Direct .com
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 10:37:23 2012, 美东)

I know BD is really popular so I hope I don't offend anybody, but as a "
manufacturer" now (LOL), I have learned a lot of details about the bike
business and would like to share with you. 

Firstly, in terms of cost, I can get aluminum road bike frames as cheap as
US$15, or as expensive as over 600USD (which is 40 times more than the
former). I can go on for 3 days to describe the many differences between the
two, material, workmanship, testing, R&D, and many other things...   

As most consumers would judge an unknown frame by its components, it's very
very easy to get a US$15 frame and build it up with Dura Ace.  So they guy
can literally pass on the Dura Ace group to you at his cost but make a 2000%
profit on the frame (yes, that's 20 times).

Not saying there is anything wrong with it, but just stating a fact. 
Frankly I am quite astonished by the profit margin these guys can achieve. 

Same reason a girl with an Hermes bag would only date a X=代。Without the
bag, she is just a regular broad.

So if you got yourself a "Ultegra Level" bike for $1500, it would well be a
$450 group with a $15 frame.

--

※ 修改:·ironman2015 於 Sep 12 13:53:09 2013 修改本文·[FROM: 206.]
※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 125.]

 
penguinfly
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发信人: penguinfly (flying penguin), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 11:38:32 2012, 美东)

Does this only apply for Bikedirect or for all the big brands?

I assume you are talking about Bikedirect instead of BlackDiamond, right?

【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: I know BD is really popular so I hope I don't offend anybody, but as a "
: manufacturer" now (LOL), I have learned a lot of details about the bike
: business and would like to share with you. 
: Firstly, in terms of cost, I can get aluminum road bike frames as cheap as
: US$15, or as expensive as over 600USD (which is 40 times more than the
: former). I can go on for 3 days to describe the many differences between
the
:  two, material, workmanship, testing, R&D, and many other things...   
: As most consumers would judge an unknown frame by its components, it's
very
: very easy to get a US$15 frame and build it up with Dura Ace.  So they guy
: can literally pass on the Dura Ace group to you at his cost but make a
2000%
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 137.]

 
binladen
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发信人: binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 12:31:25 2012, 美东)

I am only talking about bikedirect, although many companies do it to some
degree. 
--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 65.]

 
mafbxh
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发信人: mafbxh (whitehorse), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 13:00:32 2012, 美东)

BD上的fuji SL3,SL1
等还是靠谱的,碳架本身都不止800刀
--

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heyihua
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发信人: heyihua (awa), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 13:05:23 2012, 美东)

From a consumer's point of view, I guess the question now is how to tell a $
15 frame from a $600 one, so that I, as a consumer, can make educated
purchases, not only from BD, but also from other places.

Is it possible to tell the quality difference of two frames without riding
them?


【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: I know BD is really popular so I hope I don't offend anybody, but as a "
: manufacturer" now (LOL), I have learned a lot of details about the bike
: business and would like to share with you. 
: Firstly, in terms of cost, I can get aluminum road bike frames as cheap as
: US$15, or as expensive as over 600USD (which is 40 times more than the
: former). I can go on for 3 days to describe the many differences between
the
:  two, material, workmanship, testing, R&D, and many other things...   
: As most consumers would judge an unknown frame by its components, it's
very
: very easy to get a US$15 frame and build it up with Dura Ace.  So they guy
: can literally pass on the Dura Ace group to you at his cost but make a
2000%
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 209.]

 
cookiejar
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发信人: cookiejar (饼干桶), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 14:04:28 2012, 美东)

well said!

【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: I know BD is really popular so I hope I don't offend anybody, but as a "
: manufacturer" now (LOL), I have learned a lot of details about the bike
: business and would like to share with you. 
: Firstly, in terms of cost, I can get aluminum road bike frames as cheap as
: US$15, or as expensive as over 600USD (which is 40 times more than the
: former). I can go on for 3 days to describe the many differences between
the
:  two, material, workmanship, testing, R&D, and many other things...   
: As most consumers would judge an unknown frame by its components, it's
very
: very easy to get a US$15 frame and build it up with Dura Ace.  So they guy
: can literally pass on the Dura Ace group to you at his cost but make a
2000%
: ...................

--
Shut the fuck up and run!




※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 131.]

 
binladen
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发信人: binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 14:10:20 2012, 美东)

unfortunately it is indeed difficult to tell the difference to the untrained
eye.  Plus human weaknesses would kick in and blur whatever one is able to
differentiate, with the devil strongly rooting for BD. 

I will give you a very easy example, many of these cheap frames have fucked
up geometry.  Either a super short head tube, or weird angles, etc. Handling
will be like sh*t. I was actually so relieved the other guy bought an Allez
instead of BD.  He doesn't know how much of a bump he got.  It's like basic
Adidas shoes will surely be so much better than a fancy version of Peak,
Anta, 361 or the like.

BTW, Fuji has shifted their product lines and design styles in the past
couple of years, so the old SLs must be warehouse wholesale lot closeout
picked up by BD. 

My advise is, companies have personalities.  It's really not that hard to
miss.  Here is my question to you.  Would you rather ride a $2000 Motobecane
with Dura Ace, or a $2000 TREK with 105? 

That's all I am going to say about this, before I wander into political
incorrectness.
--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 14.]

 
adscft
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发信人: adscft (ubuntu), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 15:20:22 2012, 美东)

zan~~~
【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: I know BD is really popular so I hope I don't offend anybody, but as a "
: manufacturer" now (LOL), I have learned a lot of details about the bike
: business and would like to share with you. 
: Firstly, in terms of cost, I can get aluminum road bike frames as cheap as
: US$15, or as expensive as over 600USD (which is 40 times more than the
: former). I can go on for 3 days to describe the many differences between
the
:  two, material, workmanship, testing, R&D, and many other things...   
: As most consumers would judge an unknown frame by its components, it's
very
: very easy to get a US$15 frame and build it up with Dura Ace.  So they guy
: can literally pass on the Dura Ace group to you at his cost but make a
2000%
: ...................



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 169.]

 
ferdinandshe
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发信人: ferdinandshe (Pierrot le Fou), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 17:04:03 2012, 美东)


因为你上一次对 flyxii 的评论,我现在已经把山寨碳架换成 Cervelo R3 了。牌子的
确不只
是一张贴纸而已。

回到 BD:BD 有台超低价的 DuraAce 烂车。我有阵子还有冲动要把他买回来拆光变成
build
kit。我相信他们的 components 都是 at cost 在卖的。

【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: unfortunately it is indeed difficult to tell the difference to the
untrained
:  eye.  Plus human weaknesses would kick in and blur whatever one is able
to
: differentiate, with the devil strongly rooting for BD. 
: I will give you a very easy example, many of these cheap frames have
fucked
: up geometry.  Either a super short head tube, or weird angles, etc.
Handling
:  will be like sh*t. I was actually so relieved the other guy bought an
Allez
:  instead of BD.  He doesn't know how much of a bump he got.  It's like
basic
:  Adidas shoes will surely be so much better than a fancy version of Peak,
: Anta, 361 or the like.
: BTW, Fuji has shifted their product lines and design styles in the past
: ...................



--

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neverend
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发信人: neverend (馄饨日子), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 17:14:57 2012, 美东)

这些只有业内人士才知道啊
--

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penguinfly
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发信人: penguinfly (flying penguin), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 17:17:38 2012, 美东)

太赞了!内行就是内行!

【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: unfortunately it is indeed difficult to tell the difference to the
untrained
:  eye.  Plus human weaknesses would kick in and blur whatever one is able
to
: differentiate, with the devil strongly rooting for BD. 
: I will give you a very easy example, many of these cheap frames have
fucked
: up geometry.  Either a super short head tube, or weird angles, etc.
Handling
:  will be like sh*t. I was actually so relieved the other guy bought an
Allez
:  instead of BD.  He doesn't know how much of a bump he got.  It's like
basic
:  Adidas shoes will surely be so much better than a fancy version of Peak,
: Anta, 361 or the like.
: BTW, Fuji has shifted their product lines and design styles in the past
: ...................



--

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Rodimus
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发信人: Rodimus (变叔- 全情投入), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 22:02:48 2012, 美东)

其实跟BD没太大关系, 任何bike company的车架材料成本都不高,
哪怕是碳架,也就是块塑料而已....一般牌子车整车比只卖一个frame
贵不了太多, 就是因为frame的利润太高了...

当然,他们研发这个车架的geometry可能花了非常多的人力物力
在里面, 我个人看来frame还是比component重要的多, 所以
同样两千块, 我肯定挑Trek with 105, 而不是Motobecane
with Dura Ace...

大牌公司的架子毕竟还是经过时间和无数比赛考验的, 好像
triathlon 里面cervelo的车最流行一样...


【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: unfortunately it is indeed difficult to tell the difference to the
untrained
:  eye.  Plus human weaknesses would kick in and blur whatever one is able
to
: differentiate, with the devil strongly rooting for BD. 
: I will give you a very easy example, many of these cheap frames have
fucked
: up geometry.  Either a super short head tube, or weird angles, etc.
Handling
:  will be like sh*t. I was actually so relieved the other guy bought an
Allez
:  instead of BD.  He doesn't know how much of a bump he got.  It's like
basic
:  Adidas shoes will surely be so much better than a fancy version of Peak,
: Anta, 361 or the like.
: BTW, Fuji has shifted their product lines and design styles in the past
: ...................

--
只要DNA没问题,就能游得像条鱼


※ 修改:·Rodimus 于 Aug  2 22:06:04 2012 修改本文·[FROM: 208.]
※ 来源:·BBS 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 208.]

 
binladen
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发信人: binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Aug  2 22:36:06 2012, 美东)

也看你用什么碳纤维。一公斤我用的最好的碳,可以买刚刚说的底端铝架用的铝材的几
百公斤。

我跟BD也没有什么。只是它是那种经营路线中最出名的一个(Like McDonald's to
fast food).说实话我有一阵子没看过他们的东西了。不过最开始的时候,看到他们的
东西我都会go "WTF?Why would you ever put DA on that?"

只是最近了解到很多行业信息之后有点大跌眼镜。本来也不想多说,只是因为看到刚刚
那个买了750块钱的闪电的哥们两行字就三四次提到BD,感觉就跟去奥运不为中国队加
油那种“almost apologetic”的感觉。

--

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pecanlover
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发信人: pecanlover (SheRox), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug  3 00:10:49 2012, 美东)

那请问,你觉得现在市场上,那个牌子的frame和design比较不错呢?问得再具体点就是
如果我预算$4000,那个牌子会比较好?我现在比较喜欢colnago,就是不知道怎么样。


【 在 binladen (??在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: unfortunately it is indeed difficult to tell the difference to the
untrained
:  eye.  Plus human weaknesses would kick in and blur whatever one is able
to
: differentiate, with the devil strongly rooting for BD. 
: I will give you a very easy example, many of these cheap frames have
fucked
: up geometry.  Either a super short head tube, or weird angles, etc.
Handling
:  will be like sh*t. I was actually so relieved the other guy bought an
Allez
:  instead of BD.  He doesn't know how much of a bump he got.  It's like
basic
:  Adidas shoes will surely be so much better than a fancy version of Peak,
: Anta, 361 or the like.
: BTW, Fuji has shifted their product lines and design styles in the past
: ...................


--
发自Android MITBBS阅览器 7.5
--

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BigSan
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发信人: BigSan ( 老山), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug  3 00:19:29 2012, 美东)

自行车太暴利了,问题如果只有800块,怎么才能在北美买到好架子的车,稍微有点名
气的牌子都的1000多,还得是打折。
【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: 也看你用什么碳纤维。一公斤我用的最好的碳,可以买刚刚说的底端铝架用的铝材的几
: 百公斤。
: 我跟BD也没有什么。只是它是那种经营路线中最出名的一个(Like McDonald's to
: fast food).说实话我有一阵子没看过他们的东西了。不过最开始的时候,看到他们的
: 东西我都会go "WTF?Why would you ever put DA on that?"
: 只是最近了解到很多行业信息之后有点大跌眼镜。本来也不想多说,只是因为看到刚刚
: 那个买了750块钱的闪电的哥们两行字就三四次提到BD,感觉就跟去奥运不为中国队加
: 油那种“almost apologetic”的感觉。



--

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binladen
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发信人: binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug  3 01:11:02 2012, 美东)

我这里重点说的是架子和套件的开支比例问题,并不是总数的问题(其实自行车的利润
率在制造业算低的)。

下面那哥们的700多块的闪电不是挺好么?

如果你始终过不了“Ultegra Level Bike”这一关,那当我没说。 凤姐穿上一身爱玛
仕,她还是凤姐。

【 在 BigSan ( 老山) 的大作中提到: 】
: 自行车太暴利了,问题如果只有800块,怎么才能在北美买到好架子的车,稍微有点名
: 气的牌子都的1000多,还得是打折。



--

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binladen
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发信人: binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug  3 01:20:56 2012, 美东)

如果是我毫无保留的推荐,肯定是:Falco Peregrine Hi-Mod Carbon + Falco carbon
wheels + CP Record. LOL

如果是我避嫌的推荐,那就是大品牌的顶级系列的低端款。这么说吧, Cannondale,
SCOTT,之类的,高系列的低端款。

数学公式很简单:一个系列设计已经有了,R&D钱已经花了。最后往往是同样的架子(
或者相差不多的架子,比如碳纤维差一些),放上105,和稍稍难看的涂装,就卖
3000美金;但是放上Dura Ace 和好看点点的涂装,就卖7000美金。公司的本钱之差也
许就是800美金这样,但售价差4000。Basically, milk the rich guy.

汽车的选配,也是这个道理。


【 在 pecanlover (SheRox) 的大作中提到: 】
: 那请问,你觉得现在市场上,那个牌子的frame和design比较不错呢?问得再具体点就是
: 如果我预算$4000,那个牌子会比较好?我现在比较喜欢colnago,就是不知道怎么样。
: untrained
: to
: fucked
: Handling
: Allez
: basic



--

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BigSan
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我的博客
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发信人: BigSan ( 老山), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug  3 01:31:19 2012, 美东)

得,还得在BD,不是一个level的
【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我这里重点说的是架子和套件的开支比例问题,并不是总数的问题(其实自行车的利润
: 率在制造业算低的)。
: 下面那哥们的700多块的闪电不是挺好么?
: 如果你始终过不了“Ultegra Level Bike”这一关,那当我没说。 凤姐穿上一身爱玛
: 仕,她还是凤姐。



--

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BigSan
进入未名形象秀
我的博客
[回复] [回信给作者] [本篇全文] [本讨论区] [修改] [删除] [转寄] [转贴] [收藏] [举报] [ 19 ]

发信人: BigSan ( 老山), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug  3 01:31:25 2012, 美东)

得,还得在BD,不是一个level的
【 在 binladen (飛龍在天 -- El Lardo) 的大作中提到: 】
: 我这里重点说的是架子和套件的开支比例问题,并不是总数的问题(其实自行车的利润
: 率在制造业算低的)。
: 下面那哥们的700多块的闪电不是挺好么?
: 如果你始终过不了“Ultegra Level Bike”这一关,那当我没说。 凤姐穿上一身爱玛
: 仕,她还是凤姐。



--

※ 来源:·WWW 未名空间站 海外: mitbbs.com 中国: mitbbs.cn·[FROM: 70.]

 
Rodimus
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我的博客
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发信人: Rodimus (变叔- 全情投入), 信区: Cycling
标  题: Re: A word on BD
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug  3 10:59:28 2012, 美东)

直接P5算了....

【 在 pecanlover (SheRox) 的大作中提到: 】
: 那请问,你觉得现在市场上,那个牌子的frame和design比较不错呢?问得再具体点就是
: 如果我预算$4000,那个牌子会比较好?我现在比较喜欢colnago,就是不知道怎么样。
: untrained
: to
: fucked
: Handling
: Allez
: basic


--
只要DNA没问题,就能游得像条鱼


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